1974 Interview with Rudy Maxa of the Washington Post
Interview Transcript - Part 3
QUIGLEY: “it wasnʼt the best of them:
ʻGeneral Crises in Civilization.ʼ You know, which,
this is an attractive title. Now, uh, somebody called
me up and wanted to talk to me, at this. And. I think it
was at this. And he said his name was Larson and he was
a scientist from Brigham Young and he wanted to see
and talk to me because of what was going on up there.
I said ʻWhat is going on up there?ʼ ʻOh,ʼ he said,
ʻTheyʼre have mass meetings on thisʼ, and, and he
says ʻIt is just an uproar all the time.ʼ And I
didnʼt know.” “Now, he made an interview with me, and
he wanted to play it on the campus radio, or the
local radio, station, and I said ʻAll right.ʼ”
INTERVIEWER: “What was the interview
about?”
QUIGLEY: “About, this, this.
INTERVIEWER: “This book?”
QUIGLEY: “Yeah, No, about the Skousens
controversy. And I said ʻAll right. Let me know what
happensʼ But he never wrote to me. I never found out. I
never made any effort. So I donʼt know if it was ever
broadcast or not.”
INTERVIEWER: “ Hmmm. What was, what,
why, what was your input in that. What did you have
to say about the Skousens controversy?”
QUIGLEY: Well, I simply told him
Skousens wrote this book. He never, uh, talked to me
about it.”
INTERVIEWER: “Never talked with you.”
QUIGLEY: “He violated my copyright.
Itʼs full of lies. There are things that are untrue.
It takes things out of context and mis-interprets them.
And I gave him the specific things where I disagreed.
The group that Iʼm writing about was originally, in my
mind, the group established secretly by Lord Milner in
1908, 1909, called The Round Table Group, which still
publishes a quarterly magazine called the ʻThe Round
Tableʼ in London, which is one of the worldʼs best
sources of international relations information since
1910. The first editor of it was Lord Lothian, at that
time Philip Kerr. K-E-R-R. And, uh, nobody knew this,
really, for years. I got to know things. And I
investigated that group. You see?
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: “Now, how I found it is very
interesting I noticed that prominent people in English
life had ʻFellow of All Souls College.ʼ Uh, Lord
Halifax, who was the, uh, Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs and then they made him the Ambassador to
America. When they take the Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs and makes him Ambassador to
Washington, which most people would consider a downward
step, it shows how important they considered
Washingtonʼs support would be in World War II. You
see? All right. Heʼs a Fellow of All Souls. The
fellow who summoned Neville, uh, Chamberlain, on the
10th of May 1940, and said ʻFor Godʼs sake, go.ʼ was,
uh, Leo Amery. All right. He was a sidekick, the
chief lieutenant, political lieutenant of Lord Milner.
See? And he was a Fellow of All Souls. And so, I
decided I would study All Souls as a purely historical
effort. I got the names of all people who had been
Fellows of All Souls from 1899 to whenever I was
doing it, which would be about 1947. And there were one
hundred forty-nine of them. I discovered that most of
them were Fellows for only seven years, which was
the, the regular appointment, which is for seven years.
But some of them were for fifty-five years Fellows of
All Souls. A man named Dougal Malcolm, who was the
head of the British South Africa Company, which is
what Rhodesia. You see. And he was fifty-five years. I
discovered that Lord Brand, who had been with Milner
in South Africa, was for years. And he was the head
of Lazar Brothers bankers, in London. And, I discovered
that Leo Amery was, for years. And so forth. And
above all, I discovered a man named Lionel Curtis,
who had no right whatever to be a Fellow of All Souls.
You get to be a Fellow of All Souls either because
you are a very prominent person and, as an honorary
thing, you will become a honorary fellow for seven
years. Or because you were an outstanding scholar and
you get it by competitive examination when you
graduate. Thatʼs how Lord Halifax got it. His name was,
uh, Charles [actually, Edward] Wood. In 1903, when he
graduated from, uh, Oxford, he took a competitive
examination and got it. But heʼs kept it. Now I
discovered he kept it because he went immediately to
South Africa and met the Kindergarten, which was the
group of people that were running South Africa for Lord
Milner, you see. They were called ʻKindergartenʼ
because they were all young kids.”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: You see. Now these are the
ones who remained forever after ʻFellows of All
Souls.ʼ Or in Lional Curtisʼs case. Heʼs the man who
said ʻWeʼve got to change the name from ʻBritish
Empireʼ to ʻCommonwealth of Nations.ʼ And the reason is
they had been students of Alfred Zimmern, who wrote a
book in 1909 called ʻThe Greek Commonwealthʼ
describing ancient Greece. You see? And who was the
man who made Arnold Toynbee a great classical scholar,
do you see? And brought him into international
affairs. Now, I knew none of this.”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: “All I knew is, that here
were, here was a fellow, Lionel Curtis, who was such a
poor student it took him fifteen years to get his
degree. And then he got it [with] about the lowest
pass degree or something that you could ever get.”
INTERVIEWER: “Uhm huh. Here he was.”
QUIGLEY: “ And he.. And nobody knew it;
nobody ever heard of him.”
INTERVIEWER: “Right. But he was...”
QUIGLEY: “Furthermore.”
INTERVIEWER: “...in very good company.”
QUIGLEY: “Furthermore, he was Lord
Halifaxʼs roommate at All Souls for years. And then I
discovered this fellow is behind everything thatʼs going
on. Lionel Curtis, do you see? Now, I donʼt think we
should talk too much about this.”
INTERVIEWER: “Well, No, I, you see. .”
QUIGLEY: “All right. All right. But,
having discovered that, I met Alfred Zimmern, when he
came here to give a speech. And I said ʻIsnʼt this funny
that, that All Souls...ʼ He said ʻThatʼs the Round
Table Group.ʼ I had never heard of them. That shows how
little I knew. And theyʼd been around since 1909 and
publishing this magazine from 1910. And this was
1947. And I said ʻWhat is the Round Table Group?ʼ He
named them, who they were. And he said ʻI was a member
of them, for ten years. From 1913. And they, they
added, they brought me in, invited me because I was
in their Workersʼ Educational Alliance.” This is
extension programs. Night courses, summer courses for
workers. Workersʼ Educational Alliance. And he said,
uh, ʻThatʼs why they brought me in to it. I was for ten
years.ʼ And he said ʻI resigned in 1923 because they
were determined to build up Germany against France.ʼ
He said “I wouldnʼt stand for it. So I resigned.ʼ
Now, when I met Lord Brand later and asked him about
this, he [said] he had never seen the letter of
resignation. Now, so Iʼd better start talking,
because you see, this gets into all kinds of things.”
INTERVIEWER: “O.K.”
QUIGLEY: “Now, this is. I knew the
Round Table group was very influential. I knew that they
were the real founders of the Royal Institutes of
International Affairs. And I knew that, all the stuff
that is in print, that they were they real founders of
the Institutes of Pacific Relations. I knew that they
were the godfathers of the, uh, Council on Foreign
Relations here.”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh hmm,”
QUIGLEY: “I knew that, for example, you
know the big ʻStudy of History,ʼ many volumes of, uh,
Arnold Toynbee?
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh”
QUIGLEY: “All right. I knew the
manuscripts of that were stored in Council on Foreign
Relations during the War so they wouldnʼt be
destroyed by German bombing, do you see?”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh”
QUIGLEY: “And so forth, and so forth.
So I began to put these things together and discovered
that this group was working for the following things.
They were a secret group. They were working to
federate the English-speaking world, the
English-speaking world. They were closely linked to
international bankers. Uh, they were working to
establish a world, what I call a three-power world.
And that three-power world was: The Atlantic Bloc (of
England and the Commonwealth and the United States),
Germany (Hitlerʼs Germany), Soviet Russia. The three
power world. They said Germany, we can control
because [itʼs] boxed in (and all of this is in my book),
itʼs boxed in between the Atlantic Bloc and the
Russians. The Russians will behave because theyʼre
boxed in between the Atlantic Bloc (the American Navy
and Singapore, and so forth) and, uh, the Germans. Do
you see?”
INTERVIEWER: “Right.”
QUIGLEY: “And, therefore... Now, this
all described in my book, and this was their idea.
Now notice, itʼs a balance of power system.”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, Huh.”
QUIGLEY: “Itʼs essentially what
Kissinger, but he doesnʼt know what heʼs doing. Heʼs
bungling everything.”
INTERVIEWER: “Hmm.”
QUIGLEY: “Because heʼs just a prima
donna, you know, uh, emotionally unbalanced, uh,
person. He doesnʼt know what the hell heʼs doing. But it
was a good idea. And what he should have been doing
is described by me, and you really should read this,
in ʻCurrent Historyʼ for October 1968. Now, if I had a
copy, Iʼd give it to you. But I donʼt have it. It is
how to construct a multi-bloc world, in which the United
States would be secure as the other candidi [sic] and
would be independent and have freedom of action. Do
you see?”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, hmm.”
QUIGLEY: “But he is blowing it. In one
way or another. And the whole thing is going to explode
in his face, Iʼm afraid. And I hope to God it doesnʼt.
Because we cannot afford, you know, another mess like
this. These incompetents. Now, uh, what is said is
here, is: these people are for world domination.”
INTERVIEWER: “And that you...”
QUIGLEY: “And the group I am talking
about were not.”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh”
QUIGLEY: “They were largely, partly
financed, for instance, by the, uh, by Rhodes, the
Rhodes Trust, and the how ...”
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